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Real Talk: Community Discussion v.3
Let's talk about how we feel!

Blossom is currently Inactive. Activate? Inactive
Name Player
Blossom Kelly Staff

Hi guys!

This is our third REAL TALK thread and we want to hear from YOU in total transparency. Please don’t misunderstand this for a platform to bring negativity in because we all know that can snowball fast.

But we want to hear from our member base what we as a staff team can do to make you feel more included, more in the loop, more engaged on the site. How staff can be more helpful to you or easier to approach. What we as a SITE can work on to make things feel more like home, more fun, more safe.

If you have suggestions, we’d love them! If you have questions, we’re here to answer them as best we can, as normal people and as staff. And if you have concerns, this is certainly the place to floor them. Just please be mindful of tone because we want this to be a safe place to voice yourself, not an environment that fosters underhanded negativity.

That said, please feel free to PM any of the staff team with any concerns that you feel might not be best suited here. We want to hear everything, so if it’s better left private, you have that option as well.

We love you all and we love Horizon, so we just want to make sure today, tomorrow, five years from now, that we’re doing our best to make this a place you look forward to logging into.

As some people feel that things were not addressed from the last thread, I’d like to bring to light all of the issues brought up, if they were fixed, if they weren’t, why they weren’t, etc.

So without further ado,
Things brought up in the last Real Talk thread:


*drum roll please* Fix the fight system — While we can’t promise it’s a total fix, we’ve finally posted up fight rules, which we hope will make things easier and more clear for everyone. This is a WIP, so please let us know if things aren’t working for you, if they are, etc. We apologize for how long this took, but the fight system is such a core piece of the site that we wanted to make sure we were both adhering to Horizon’s standards of simplicity while also doing this right by you all.
Wiki on fight injuries — It’s up, baby!
Clarify liquid time/OOC planning — You got it!
Assumptions during 3-day skips — Done!
Inactive wolves who aren’t marked inactive clarification — Clarified!
Condensing the map territories — We’re working on some interesting stuff!
More Skype parties — We’re back in action to one Skype party a season.
More events in-game — We’ll be having an in-game event every subseason now. Some might be region-specific, but we’ll be alternating, we promise!
More staff discussion in OOC forums — We heard you, and we’ll be working on this!
Add Discord link to dropdown — Tis done!


Clear up color/pattern/manipulation rules — We are working on this!
Adoptable forum — As much as we love this idea, right now we can’t create OOC forums without every post showing up in your threadlog. Definitely looking into this!


Change plot news rules — We encourage you to post these up as soon as your thread is finished. EDIT: We have added a link at the end of SP submissions to encourage and remind you all to post to the plot news!
Change cbox rules about thread talk - Not changing.
Fix email system — Not possible, unfortunately. Totally a Chels thing.


Cbox is quieter — We encourage you to chat. Get to know members, staff, and just be goofy. Don’t stress if you only have a few minutes. Let’s get this back up to being fun.
Game nights/movie nights — You guys rule the roost on this one!
Way that members can help advertise — We will so brainstorm on this, and we’d love your input. Anyone can advertise, so if you know a place to drop our name, go for it.


A lot of you have asked what this means. If a member can can get the “powers” that Chels has. Unfortunately it’s more complicated than that. Currently Kelly, Fao, and Lea have “Super Admin” powers, which is as high up the ranking system you can go within ExpressionEngine, the CMS that Horizon runs on. However, this only gives us limited access to things. For example, because we don’t have access to her AWS server, the background images in all of the new forums are essentially hacked in on various pages using a handful of coding languages. The same thing goes with the pack gradients. We have access to some of the database, but even one of my professional coding friends feels uncomfortable running things without access to backups. Which means every time we hack something new in, there was a risk it might have broken the entire site (and for serious good). So don’t think we’re brushing you off when we say something is a Chels only thing. It actually probably is. We do our best, but her AWS hosts more than just Horizon, so we can’t exactly ask for ownership of it. We’ll eventually hack through all the things we want, but it’s a process.

Jun 22, 2018 04:54 PM

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[ Edited: Sep 04, 2018 02:12 PM by Ophelia ]
Igbo is currently Inactive. Activate? Inactive
Name Player
Igbo Black J

I did have some inquiries that I’d like other members input on and/or how Staff deliberated through them.

“Female wolves can only go into heat after being active for one full season (three subseasons)”

I reasoned that staff made this rule to 1. prevent inactive mothers during pregnancy and/or after birth and 2. limit the amount of inactive/dead puppies. What bothers me is the rule does not apply to male characters? I wanted to know what staff thinks about this, and how the community would feel if it did apply to males also.

What are the damages of not having all characters unable to conceive if they have not been active for a full season?

Additionally, does a full season count as one long consistent season or can it count as Gina was here for early spring, full summer, early autumn?

Another thing is that if there are worries about pregnant females going inactive due to the
player, should it not be considered okay to play out regardless? Mothers go missing, its traumatic but I personally see it as a part of Horizon’s dynamic.

Could the rule be better written as anyone not active for a full season cannot conceive pups? Yet still allowing unsuccessful heat to happen?

I feel that it would allow people writing female characters the chance to be in heat, but not necessarily have success. If I came in new and had a female character that would very likely go into heat for the winter and be sexually active, it would suck that there was that limit of having no heat. Why not no success, with the player actively knowing that their 1. new active or 2. spotty active is the reason why? I don’t think Horizon should limit what can be roleplayed to the degree of heat.

My main nitpick with this rule is that it seems to be covering what it actually wants to help. If the issues of inactive players, especially pregnant females with new players, seems to be the problem, why not limit the conception? Is it because there is a fear of doctored puppy outcomes? Or was it not thought of?

Maybe I am going onto an ENTIRELY different tangent! Let me know! I am open to hear what everyone has to say.

Jun 22, 2018 05:21 PM — Post #1

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[ Edited: Jun 22, 2018 06:19 PM by Igbo ]
Blossom is currently Inactive. Activate? Inactive
Name Player
Blossom Kelly Staff

The reason we did it was because a bunch of players were joining during mating season, for mating season, and then poof. If your main goal is to join a site and make babies, Horizon is not the place for you. We saw A TON of this last year. Some stayed, which is fine, but it’s essentially Horizon’s birth control to keep the population down. Males don’t factor in as heavily because they don’t play as integral a role in puppyhood. But it’s not something we couldn’t consider in the future. I, personally, just don’t see the point, particularly with rape out of the question now as well.

A full season is three subseasons. It could be full autumn to full winter, etc.

If a pregnant female falls inactive, that litter is not born. We had a huge problem with inactive mothers abandoning pups offscreen just after birth and others picking them up and it felt too OOC, so we nixed that ages ago. You can play out them going missing, for sure.

Zero chance of heat. We’ve talked about this extensively and it gets way too dicey and really what this ALL, the above included, boils down to is promoting and fostering a culture of sex that we just don’t condone. Writing it off as a character coming into the valley, having traveled a distance, and missing their heat makes far more sense.

Jun 22, 2018 05:35 PM — Post #2

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Adler is currently Inactive. Activate? Inactive
Name Player
Adler Fitzroy Mekani

“Change cbox rules about thread talk - Not changing.”
What is this about exactly? Is it how we can’t ask people to join lonely threads or pressure people to make threads go a certain way, or something else? I was confused on what the cbox rules about thread talk actually are, because some people seemed to think that we can’t discuss threads at all.

I’d say wait and see how this mating season goes and how many litters there are before making more changes like requiring males to be active for a full season too, I think there might already be a lot less litters than last year due to the rule about females and other factors (but last year I thought there would be less litters too and I was wrong lol), and it might cause OOC influence where females try to avoid males that haven’t been active long enough if they want to have pups (I guess that could happen in reverse too, but seems like it would be more likely with females)

Uuhh I forgot what else I was gonna say, it’s great that so many rules are being clarified and such though, so keep up the good work ;D

Jun 22, 2018 06:17 PM — Post #3

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Eden is currently Inactive. Activate? Inactive
Name Player
Eden Aekyr Kelly Staff

“Change cbox rules about thread talk - Not changing.”
Correct. We’re not allowing people to post links to threads or talk about threads in a pressuring manner that influences OOC decisions or makes people join, i.e. fights.

Making males go inactive doesn’t make sense IRL because males don’t go into heat. So it’s unlikely. And yes, OOC influence. Let’s have some organic relationships, guys!

And thanks! We’re trying! Definitely getting back up there in activity, and a huge shoutout to Sam for stepping up and to Rainy and Quinn and Chris while I’ve been MIA and Fao has been busy. Making changes is fun, and we’re super excited to keep making them where needed.

Jun 22, 2018 06:36 PM — Post #4

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Name Player
Bucky Rangers Chris Staff
Achievements (?)
1year 2mos 6mos 100ooc 100posts 250posts 500ooc 500posts 1000posts helper lonelythreads otm plotreporter profile welcomeguide

Well done to J and Mekani for jumping right in and giving us some feedback and concerns and for speaking up! I know it can seem overwhelming sometimes guys, especially for people who are naturally less forward or you’re telling yourself ‘no it’s just me nobody else will feel the same way it’s not a big deal’ - we still want to hear from you I promise!

Mekani I hadn’t actually thought of that, the ooc influence and the fact if males were restricted females might avoid certain partners. A good point to bring up! Though I suppose if you had a very family centric desperate male for kids that same influence could work the opposite way too.

I think I’m happy right now with females having to be active for three subseasons before because of course the pressure is all on them, to stay active while pregnant, to post in the window of sub-season available, then to be active while pups are nursing and totally dependent on them. Most of us have played absentee family members and it isn’t fun! So I feel it’s a nice ‘trial run’ sort of thing. 

Keep the feedback rolling in guys :D

Jun 24, 2018 04:05 AM — Post #5

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Serafina is currently Inactive. Activate? Inactive
Name Player
Serafina Nevero Gabriel Lucas

May I say, the fact that yall have made not one, but three threads about this speaks volumes. I don’t think I’ve ever seen another forum so dedicated to its userbase- kudos to our lovely staff

ALTHOUGH. I DO HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY. Or rather, suggest? TWO THINGS. And it’s not that I love you all (although I do)

The first thing is! Do you guys think it’d be likely to have events like the skype party but… not on skype? Maybe something on discord, since a lot of us are already in the server there and it has a voice chat? Some of us don’t have skype and some of us don’t have Discord, so I think it’d be a good way to get the majority of the people included! Since most of us are bound to have one Or the other! Also maaaaybe some more diverse hours? All the skype parties for me have been at 3 AM and later and I’ve never been able to participate : (

Second thing! Would it be possible to get a bit clearer guidelines on pregnancy and pup growth timelines? Since Horizon moves mostly in real time but accelerated, does this slight acceleration effect those timelines too? Like… would the 6 weeks IC pregnancy be 5 weeks OOC? Stuff like that! Or are all times listed in OOC time? I think it’d be a good idea to include it in the guidelines as well!

EDIT;; SORRY I REMEMBERED SOMETHING ELSE. It would be… really nice if we could get some clarification/advice on what to do if an important character thread isnt moving, to the point where it nulls the outcome of it?? For example, when Freyar was going to join the Fellowship, the thread took about… two months to complete, because various members of it kept going on absences, and in the end he ended up missing a lot of in-pack happenings that he would have been present for because at the time of them happening the thread where he joins hadn’t been completed yet! What are the rules surrounding those kind of happenings? Would people be able to talk through the outcome of the thread in advance, so that everyone involved would be able to not mess up their timeline? Etc! I’ve faced this problem like…. one and a half times now & it’s nto fun & really stressful, so i’d really lack some clarification there !
Jun 24, 2018 11:32 AM — Post #6

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[ Edited: Jun 24, 2018 11:39 AM by Serafina ]
Name Player
Shade Dingo
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1year 2mos 6mos 100posts 250posts helper profile wikicontributor

I’m compiling a list of things that were brought up during my time in the Skype call last night. It was kind of late so forgive me if anything isn’t listed!

It might be a good idea to create a wiki page of places to advertise and places not to, as well as code for those ads. Additionally, it could be a place to put links for vote-based advertising.

Something else, advertising could be used as an OOC event objective.

Potentially embedding Discord on site. I’ll further look into if this is possible or not and get back with staff, given that’s something worth doing.

So there IS a facebook group for Horizon, and personally I think it’s very convenient as most of us have Facebook on a mobile device, so posts for event reminders or site notices actually give off notifications, which is awesome. It’s a private group, so invites need to be given out by members. If you’re interested in joining that group, ask staff or anyone who is in the cbox so we can get you plugged in!

This is all I can remember, but I’ll edit this if anything else comes back to me.


MotM & CotM:
Maybe posting bulletin reminders to vote for MotM and CotM a little earlier than it has been in the past to get people in the mindset to vote and allowing them time to decide who they’ll be voting for.

Jun 24, 2018 01:02 PM — Post #7

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[ Edited: Jun 25, 2018 01:51 PM by Shade ]
Amelie is currently Inactive. Activate? Inactive
Name Player
Amelie Sam


One of the things we like about Skype is the video chat. We love seeing our members’ lovely faces! And we are planning on having about every other Skype party be set up for the member base that’s on the other side of the world so that you guys can party, too!

Pup and pregnancy stuff should be accelerated a little bit in game. We don’t get too specific because, frankly, in real life none of that stuff happens exactly at three weeks, six weeks, etc. They’re mostly estimations, basically.

Our Tips: Threadlocks page should be able to help with that, now. If you are in a thread going slow you can hop into others. Pack joining threads shouldn’t be threadlocking but always best to err on the side of vagueness until it’s for certain. If something suddenly threadlocking (e.g. a fight) happens in that joining thread you can always rearrange your character’s timeline and threads accordingly because threads can fit into characters’ timelines differently!

Jun 25, 2018 07:51 AM — Post #8

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Name Player
Bayley D'Augusta Angie
Achievements (?)
None yet!

In regards to birth control thing: I think it would have maybe been better to just say that if one or both parents haven’t been active for a full season, they cannot have a litter and cannot apply. It covers both genders, still does what you want, and makes it so those who wish to rp it without puppies can. Not every breeding irl results in puppies. Equally as realistic as just saying they wouldn’t come into heat at all, and enables some great plot building as the characters wouldn’t know any different. The argument of ooc plotting goes both ways. We ooc plot now that they’re not going to be in heat. We ooc plot when they are in heat. This just feels really restrictive/controlling and only targets half of the issue. (Several males have had multiple litters, which churns out puppies. Make a suave male and mate with an active female and get your puppy fix guys!) Just feedback for next time I guess. :3

Also am really concerned about important thread that just completely die. Posting every few days is well and good but often it is a major character development thread and someone disappears and you’re left having to be vague about it at all. But asking people to post can turn into harassment really fast. I think overall everyone needs to be more respectful about not jumping in more threads than they can reasonably reply to in the three day grace period.

Jun 25, 2018 10:47 AM — Post #9

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[ Edited: Jun 25, 2018 10:57 AM by Bayley ]
Eden is currently Inactive. Activate? Inactive
Name Player
Eden Aekyr Kelly Staff

Pregnancy Timelines

About pup pregnancy timelines, and while this is in no way required, Hal and Drew made a forum to help people who wanted more structure here. It’s pretty helpful!

Male Mating Cutoff

I just don’t agree on the females being OOC. IRL wolves who travel long distances, are stressed out, and a number of other issue skip a cycle. So new players, players who will have had to explain why their females were outside of the valley, fall into that very real-life circumstance naturally. Males don’t really have an excuse. Yes, we’ve had males mate with multiple females, but with less “new and excited” wolves around, there should naturally be less “willing” partners. And like I mentioned earlier, the no rape rule also takes away from a lot of the male problem.

Important Threads Dying

It sucks, and I agree, people should reply and take on what they can. But if a thread dies, it dies, and everyone has to find a way to move on. Things happen outside the realm of people’s ability to control, and beyond the 3-Day Skip rule and our clarifications on threadlock, I’m not sure what to offer here.

Jun 25, 2018 12:36 PM — Post #10

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Name Player
Shade Dingo
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1year 2mos 6mos 100posts 250posts helper profile wikicontributor

Piggybacking on Angie’s post, in the event of an important thread dying due to a player having other occupations and given one may be able to reach them via some form of communication, would it be alright to discuss the outcome of that thread for clarification purposes, or would that be considered OOC plotting?

Jun 25, 2018 01:47 PM — Post #11

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Nala is currently Inactive. Activate? Inactive
Name Player
Nala Vãduvã Kori

Seconding Dingo’s question. It has occurred to me many times that sometimes threads end before their natural conclusion (eg Catrine teaching the HS pups how to catch fish, should I assume that lesson went through regardless even though they never quite got to catching fish? What should I assume happened in the place of that if they didn’t learn?) it’s a bit of an awkward side effect of no OOC planning :C
I can maybe understand major plot things shouldn’t be assumed, but something as simple as a hunting lesson I feel could be treated the same as the OOC meeting pack members thing.
Either way I’m not very good at offering solutions here unfortunately.

Also massive thank you for clarifying fight rules. I personally feel happy with them, but that’s just my opinion :D

Jun 25, 2018 01:54 PM — Post #12

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Amelie is currently Inactive. Activate? Inactive
Name Player
Amelie Sam


We do encourage communication between players (see Inactive Wolves Who’ve Not Yet Failed An Activity Check) so long as it doesn’t breach into OOC planning, i.e. going into too much detail with the busy player. (I typed this during a phone call so hopefully it makes sense x3)


For stuff like that, check out our Offscreen Interactions page! It has a list of simple things like learning to hunt explained.

But yes, things that could effect plots and whatnot should not be assumed.

And I’m glad you’re happy with the fight rules!

Jun 25, 2018 03:42 PM — Post #13

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Name Player
Freyar Gabriel Lucas
Achievements (?)
None yet!


Thanks for the reply! About the Skype thing, my point mainly was that not all of us have Skype, and it leaves a lot of us out. That’s why I suggested events happen both on Skype and discord, so it’s able to catch the majority of players

Also! can you explain to me how pack joining threads shouldn’t be threadlocking? I’m a little confused since your wolf joining a pack effects if they are able to stay in pack territory, interact with pack wolves etc! so it’s kinda really important oajdjdm
Jun 25, 2018 05:11 PM — Post #14

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Amelie is currently Inactive. Activate? Inactive
Name Player
Amelie Sam

I’ll have to check on possibly having Discord events, because it takes some planning and prep for Skype parties and we’re working on doing more of those but I’ll check.

As for pack joining threads, they’re not exactly as threadlocking as a fight thread would be, which is what I meant (and I think I might have been thinking of something else for some reason when I read your post).

If the pack leader player’s activity is a little scarce or seems to be falling inactive, I might give them a gentle poke since we do need IC evidence of a wolf joining to get them officially added. Otherwise, you’ll just have to be patient or, if the thread dies, do whatever your character would do and continue on.

Sorry I think I just read your question wrong x3

Jun 25, 2018 05:47 PM — Post #15

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